闽南话 speakers from Taiwan, China and Southeast Asia

Hi All,

I’m certain quite a few of us here are speakers of different varieties of 闽南话 (Minnanhua, Taiwanese, Hokkien, Southern Min) from China, Taiwan and Southeast Asia.

Feel free to post information about your native varieties - I’m from Penang, Malaysia and speak what we call Penang Hokkien. It’s also spoken by ethnic Chinese in neighbouring parts of Northern Malaysia and is practically identical with Medan Hokkien spoken across the Straits of Malacca in Sumatra, Indonesia.
On my trips to China, Xiamen people I met often say I sound like I’m from Zhangzhou, while Taiwanese seem to think I’m from Yilan - this gives you a good idea of what my accent sounds like.

Another variety spoken in Southern Malaysia, Singapore and parts of Borneo is closer to Quanzhou-Nan’an-Yongchun accent. In Malaysia, Chaozhou and Hainanese 闽南话 are also commonly spoken in some areas but Hainanese especially is a lot less intelligible.

Nice meeting you! Lai chit-tau chham-ka!
Brian Loo

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Brian,

I’m glad that you posted about 閩南話 (Southern Min). I speak Taiwanese (台灣話). I was born and raised in the US but my parents are from Taiwan. I speak it with my grandparents’ generation and some relatives from my parents’ generation.

Fred

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Hi Brian! My paternal grandparents were from Penang. I don’t speak Hokkien myself (save for being able to repeat a few stock phrases and sing wa meng ti) but the accent with which I’m most familiar should be similar to yours. My (Cantonese) maternal grandparents were from Malacca and also spoke conversational Hokkien with, now that you mention it, a different accent. I’d love to learn but resources are scarce and my grandparents are unfortunately no longer of this world. ^^"

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Hey there! Me and a group are friends are learning Taiwanese together! Gotta say it’s rather thrilling

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Israel, how have you been learning it? I find that resources are pretty scarce. I’ve studied from a few different books and have conversed with relatives in Taiwanese.

Are you Taiwanese? (Out of curiosity)

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Honestly I can’t help much with that. I started with the sentences on Glossika, and read about the syntax somewhere. Then after I built up a decent level of understanding I went on to watch some YouTube. We also got a native speaker to teach us…

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Hey Brian! Nice to see a fellow Malaysian (AND fellow Hokkien speaker) here!

I’m from KL, but my dad (he’s the Hokkien speaking one - my mom’s Hakka) is from Johor. While he rarely spoke Hokkien to me growing up, my grandmother did. We mostly talked about day-to-day stuff though, so my vocabulary was quite limited. It wasn’t until we started subscribing to Hwa Hee Tai when I was in Form 1 that I started to really learn the dialect (albeit a slightly different version of what we speak with my dad’s side of the family) through watching Taiwanese drama.

As a result, the 闽南话 I speak today is a mix of how my grandma spoke and how people speak in those Taiwanese soap opera (think 意难忘) :joy: My Hokkien-speaking friends from Johor think it’s hilarious and are always like lol this kl kia;;; where tf are u actually from???

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Nice to meet you Heather!

I can already visualise what your Johor friends must be saying :slight_smile:

I’m trying to organise a get together in one of the rooms, but have to coordinate with people in goodness knows how many timezone :slight_smile:

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Hey Brian!

My father’s family is Cina Peranakan from Riau but up until my grandmother’s generation they still grew up bilingual code switching between Hokkien and Malay at home. My father unfortunately didn’t taught me much in Hokkien but I tried to learn it by myself although I must say I’m unfortunately illiterate in Han-ji and relies solely on the romanisation of Hokkien that is used in Sumatra (as far as I know the same system is also used by Hokkien speakers from Luzon). I think there has been quite a shift as well because a significant chunk of Hokkien speakers from Indonesia and the Philippines, especially from the younger generations, could not write using Han-ji and relies mostly on romanisations (akin to Peh-o-ji) when they are writing.

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Interestingly the Melayu Riau dialect is closest to standard Bahasa Malaysia. I’ve met some makcik-makcik from Riau who sound almost like they’re from Kuala Lumpur lol.

Hokkien has quite a few different variants all over Southeast Asia. I’ve never heard Riau Hokkien before I imagine it’s close to what they speak in Singapore.

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I think it’s quite logical considering that Standard Malaysian Malay is based on the Johor-Riau Malay prestige dialect :grinning:

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As far as I know the sosiolect in Pekanbaru (where the ethnic Chinese part of my family are from) is closer to the Medan speech but considering that I can’t discern the differences between variety of Hokkien in South East Asia this is just a hearsay from my own extended family. I couldn’t find any good audio clip of Riau Hokkien speakers.

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I just remembered today that there is a Min-nan Wikipedia with content written in Romanized Min-nan.

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Hi Brian,
Great to meet a fellow Malaysian. I am from Taiping, Perak; essentially a Hokkien town. Family dialect is Hakka and Cantonese. My mum is Hokkien though. Picked up Hokkien as my parents speak to each other in Hokkien and my friends are mainly Hokkiens too.

Our Hokkien is similar to that of Penang and if you are able to order in Hokkien in town, you always get a bigger portion of food. :slight_smile:

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The interesting bit is that I use to travel a lot around ASEAN for business and I find that the Filipino Chinese Hokkien is the most pure. The Hokkien in Malaysia, in my opinion has too many borrowed words from Malay while the Filipino Hokkien has somehow avoided that.

The Thais Chinese whom I met are mainly Teochew and the Indonesian Chinese I met do not speak Hokkien anymore.

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Hi,
This is my first polyglot conference I learned about from a companion. My parents are also from Taiwan, although I was born and raised in the U.S. (my sister in Taipei). They spoke to me and my sister in Taiwanese while we were growing up, partly because they wanted us to be able to communicate with our grandparents, but probably partly because it was simply their native tongue that they speak in with each other. I get excited and experience a special bond with anybody that also knows my native tongue but I find it unfortunate that it seems like an archaic outdated language with no written language of its own. My allegiance is to the U.S. but my Taiwanese I cannot help but identify with nationalism towards Taiwanese independence all while still desiring unity/camaraderie with my Mainlander counterparts. Language learning indeed opens too many doors…Taiwanese? Perhaps a door mainly to the past, perhaps a gateway to untapped wisdom of previous generations, perhaps a bridge to meeting unmet needs.

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You are not alone. What I’ve found is that the majority of first generation families that immigrated from Taiwan spoke Taiwanese in their household growing up. For me, it’s actually my mother tongue and when I was a child, that’s what my parents spoke to me in. I recently met a Brazilian Taiwanese woman who moved from Sao Paolo to Taipei last year and her story was the same as yours. She spoke Portugese and Taiwanese growing up and in Taipei the locals are confused because she can’t speak Mandarin - only Taiwanese.

In Taiwan now, everyone here speaks Mandarin. It’s the national language and while there is a new revival to bring back Taiwanese (it’s more prevalent in the middle and south), it’s competing against Mandarin and Mandarin is winning. For example, my children learn and speak Mandarin at school and that’s really all they need. And even though they live in Taiwan, their exposure is limited to phrases here and there at restaurants, with our doorman or at the wet market. When they hear me speak in Taiwanese, they laugh and wonder what I’m saying.

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Hi all,

I’m glad to find this thread and see speakers of different varieties of Southern Min!

I’m Phín-tsì from Taiwan. I speak, teach and have done research on Taiwanese.

I’m also engaged in the revitalization of Taiwanese so I share the sentiments you have, especially with Tiffany and Jim.

But don’t be too pessimistic. If we speak it, use it actively, and pass it on to the next generation, it will continue to be a vibrant language that bridges the past and the future, as well as connects us with other Hokkien speakers from different parts of the world.

One of the common issues is that Taiwanese speakers nowadays tend to switch to other more powerful languages like Chinese and English, and do not empower themselves with enough confidence and linguistic knowledge.

I understand that there is a general stereotype that Taiwanese is a low-prestige language, or “an archaic outdated language with no written language of its own” - but this is not true. It’s partly because of the education, in particular Chinese nationalist education and lack of Taiwanese language/culture/history in the curriculum, and also the aftermath of the White Terror and martial law.

The writing systems for Taiwanese & Hokkien have been around for centuries, and each has accumulated a good amount of literature.

For example, the play “荔鏡記” (Tale of the Lychee Mirror) was written about 450 years ago in Southern Min vernacular in Chinese/Han characters. There are other plays and thousands of “kua-á-tsheh”, or bards’ song books, published over the past two centuries. Those poems and songs include a wide range of topics from love songs and nursery rhymes to legends, history, customs, food, nature, jokes and even language learning - all written in Taiwanese or Hokkien (not classical/literary Chinese). That’s why some experts even call kua-á-tsheh the people’s encyclopedia.

And in the non-Han character traditions, there’s also Pe̍h-ōe-jī (POJ), also known as the church romanization system, that has been used for more than a hundred years. There are newspapers, novels, dictionaries and even medical books written in POJ.

Unlike Chinese characters, “illiterate” Taiwanese speakers could learn POJ in a few weeks and start consuming information and learning new knowledge by reading POJ texts.

Taiwan Church News, for example, was the first printed newspaper in Taiwan and it was written in POJ. This is the front page of the first edition of Taiwan Church News from July 12, 1885:

Here is an example of a family letter written in Taiwanese POJ about 100 years ago:

During Japanese rule, there was also the extended Japanese Kana system developed specifically for spelling Taiwanese. There were also many books published during that time. In fact, one of the best Taiwanese dictionaries of all time is “台日大辭典” (Taiwanese-Japanese dictionary, 1931), which uses that Kana system. The dictionary was later translated into Taiwanese POJ too, which you can find here: https://taigi.fhl.net/dict/

Some of these traditions, especially POJ + Han characters, continue to be used in writing, and later there’s also the modified version of POJ called Tâi-lô (TL) promoted by the Ministry of Education. All of these are popular among Taiwanese users and learners. I myself often text my friends in Taiwanese.

“台文通訊BONG報” is a Taiwanese language periodical that has been running for 30 years and connects overseas Taiwanese and domestic readers: https://tsbp.tgb.org.tw. They publish articles in POJ, TL and Han characters.

There are also many contemporary Taiwanese writers. Just to give you two names to start with:

  1. 陳雷 Tân luî (1939-)

He has published a 5-volume short story collection and some novels. Some of them can be found online.

Here is an example of his short stories:

“圖書館ê祕密” (The secret of the library)

This is a political history story about KMT thought police in disguise of a teen romance.

Tân luî also wrote a 400-page roman-fleuve-style novel in Taiwanese entitled “鄉史補記” (2008). The storyline starts from an indigenous family in late-18th century Taiwan and runs to the late-20th century.

  1. 陳明仁 Tân Bîng-jîn (1954-)

His 6-volume “拋荒的故事” (2012) is a collection of “nostalgic” stories, with audio and annotations for learners.

Here is a sample from the publisher:

His “路樹下 ê tō͘-peh-á” (2007), on the other hand, includes more modern stories and plays.

New TV shows, music, books, podcasts, Youtube videos in Taiwanese keep coming out. There’s even a 3rd (or maybe 4th) Taiwanese translation of “Little Prince” that has just been published and topped Taiwan’s book market this year.

Whether a language is “useful” or “relevant” depends on its users. We as speakers are not passive. We can shape how the language is used. While speaking or writing in the language, we create resources and infuse it with a modern touch.

For example, at iTaigi, where I’m also a volunteer, we are creating this Urban Dictionary-like platform for people to search, contribute, and up/down vote new words and expressions. You can even find Taiwanese names of Pokemon and terms for fintech like “Bitcoin” or “blockchain”. I used to organize word-of-the-day posts with recordings on iTaigi’s Facebook & Youtube to teach words and some bits of linguistic knowledge.

Now I’m more busy with other projects, but we have seen more and more pages on social media using Taiwanese.

Some more examples, if you are interested:

世界台 (Sè-kài tâi): 周盈成 (Tsiu Îng-sîng) created this column, where he wrote about and read international news in Taiwanese: https://pnn.pts.org.tw/type/detail/942

He has stopped updating it, but currently he is translating George Orwell’s 1984 into Taiwanese:

Bite-size Taiwanese: I work with Phil Lin and Alan Chen at Bite-size Taiwanese (http://bitesizetaiwanese.com) to create podcasts and learning materials targeting at foreign audiences and heritage speakers.

There are also people who write about modern science in Taiwanese, like this blog:

This is just a snapshot of how the language can be and is currently being used.

Utilitarian views of language aside, language is also identity, memories, well-being and freedom. Every language has its own culture and own beauty. For me that’s a good enough reason to learn and pass on a language.

I’ve recently read this nice article about first/native/heritage language by a Czech-Canadian linguist: http://nautil.us/issue/30/identity/the-strange-persistence-of-first-languages

It incorporates some solid science bits with moving personal stories that everybody can relate to. I think it is worth reading for all the polyglots and will probably hit close to home for some of you.

I also see speaking indigenous languages or the language of one’s choice as a basic right, just like freedom of speech and expression. Since Taiwan’s National languageS Development Act (https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=H0170143) has been enacted, the idea of Mandarin being THE national language (singular) of Taiwan has been questioned more and more.

I wish Taiwanese speakers would really think about why and when they choose not to speak Taiwanese (to children, in public, at court, etc) even when they practically can.

I really encourage all Taiwanese & Hokkien users to speak more, and learn how to read and write. I’m sure it will open many doors.

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Phin-tsi,

Thank you for your very informative post.

Do you know of any good Taiwanese dictionaries on the web?

Hi Fred,

Here are some good dictionaries:

- Chinese-English dictionary of the vernacular or spoken language of Amoy
Original scan: https://archive.org/details/chineseenglish00doug
Searchable: http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/bkg.php?gi_gian=eng
(Not very friendly UI though)

This is a little old but it’s a very good Amoy/Hokkien/Taiwanese-English dictionary by Douglas (1873), with supplement by Barclay (1923).

- Maryknoll dictionary
Original (pdf ebook): http://www.taiwanesedictionary.org
Searchable: https://www.mkdict.net

Maryknoll contains more modern words and contemporary usages with many Mandarin loanwords.


If you read Chinese or Taiwanese written in characters, you can also try this one:
- ChhoeTaigi

ChhoeTaigi allows you to search through 10 books & dictionaries, including Maryknoll & Embree, which are Taiwanese-English. I find the app version more intuitive.

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