I have learned Latin as a school and university language in the 1970s and the 1990s.
I live in Germany and here Latin still plays an important role as one of the 3 main school languages at grammar schools “Gymnasien”. Traditionally English is the compulsory language there and all pupils have to selelct at least a second foreign language choosing between Latin and French. In my youth my parents recommended me to op for Latin because it teaches the grammar intensively which can be a good base to learn other languages later on.
What they do in schools here is, that they teach Latin grammar, vocabulary and translation skills Latin - German. So you aquire the passive understanding of Latin texts.
The teacher speaks only German in the Latin lessons.
Nowadays there is a movement in the internet where people learn Latin out of interest and for pleasure and finally they can speak it fluently. One of my language buddies has just attended a Latin course at a university in Italy where they teach Latin spoken in Latin as an active language. These courses are quite expensive, he told me, so this would not be an option for me.
I am interested to get to know what your usage of Latin is about. Is Latin still offered as a school language in your countries?
I have recently discovered Latin as a spoken language. I didn’t even realize that it was such a thing. I was suggested a channel on YouTube(Scorpius Martianus) and was immediately enchanted. I had only been taking the very short Latin course on Duolingo.
I think that for most here in the US, Latin is considered a scholarly language and one for understanding classic literature, history, and medical terms. So most study seems intent on grammar and vocabulary, rather than speaking. I am looking forward to taking a course from The Ancient Language Institute. Therefore, I can understand Latin better and, perhaps, be able to speak a little.
In Spain, Latin and Ancient Greek are offered as two separate elective subjects but just in Bachillerato (post-16) and you can sit a university admission exam for those two subjects. Some schools offer “Cultura clásica” as an elective subject in ESO (compulsory secondary education). That subject is just about getting to know the culture of Ancient Rome and Greece but they don’t teach you about the languages.
I found it a pity in school that Latin lessons were so “dry”, especially on the intermediate level, when we only were translating texts from Latin into German. YouTube is a good medium to discover Latin. For example I watched a video about cooking spoken in Latin! And you should look for “Conventiculum”, this is a channel on YouTube, which is about meerings in the United States where everybody speaks Latin even fluently. LingQ.com for example has podcasts spoken in Latin with transcripts. It’s free to listen to them, there is a possibility to upgrade, but it’s not necessary. Good luck with your Latin endeavors! Listen to fluent spoken Latin (with English subtitles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj-zCfVC2Zg
I remember in grade school being deeply disappointed that my school didn’t offer Latin. At the time, I had a great interest, though I was often discouraged, being told over and over that it was “useless.” How I wish I could encourage younger me!
I learned it a bit at university in science classes (along with a smattering of old Greek vocabulary) and in music courses (vocal). Particularly because my experience with the latter, I’m forced to wonder how flexible the current “Latin-speaking” community on YouTube is about pronunciation… As I understand it, one of the reasons it’s considered a “dead language” is that, with no native speakers, we can’t know the correct pronunciation. Even when singing a piece in Latin, we are at the mercy of the conductor’s preference or else must consider the practice of the composer in the country and time it was written, which can vary wildly.
I have seen some videos showing different styles of pronunciation based upon research. Mostly through Scorpius Martianus. I like the idea that there is more than one way to “speak” Latin, much like any other “living” language.
I feel that the idea of finding the “correct” way to pronounce Latin is similar to how David Crystal used a lot of study to discover how the works of Shakespeare would have sounded. Using literature comparatively to determine, at best guess, how the sound structure would have been.
During my studies of Romance languages I learned that the Latin we in Germany learn at school in Gernany is “Classical Latin”, which is only a written language. The Ancient Romans never used to speak classical Latin. They did speak “Vulgärlatein”. This fact makes the pronounciation of classical Latin aritraire and thus allows different variations.
At school and German university our teachers taught us to pronounce Latin the German way. So, if I would read a Latin text to you, it would sound Germanic. If I were to speak Latin I would prefer the Italian (ecclesiastic) pronounciation of Latin, because to me it sounds natural. But it’s a way of taste, what everyone prefers.
Thank you for including the parenthetical definition! I honestly probably would have been confused otherwise. I haven’t studied Latin pronunciation outside of music, where “Italian pronunciation” (modern Italian pronunciation, or nearest to) and “Ecclesiastical pronunciation” have always been presented to me as two separate dictions. (I’ve read some heated debates on which diction of Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater should be used.)
I am myself not the “expert” on the topic of pronouncing Latin, but my Skype buddy, who took the spoken Latin course online (because of Corona) at the university in Italy, explained to me that there is the “ecclesatical” and the “standard” way of pronouncing spoken Latin, and that the ecclesiastical way “sounds Italian”.
The interesting thing about the determination of whether a language is “dead” or “alive” is, in part, its ability to evolve and be spoken as a first language by a subjective number of people. However, part of what made latin “alive” at the time of the romans was its ability to evolve into romance and then spanish, french, italian, romanian, protuguese, galician, catalan, etc. So is it alive? Yes! It is alive in the modern romance languages. As for the original latin, it is considered “dead”; cast off like a snake casts off its skin as it grows. However, there are groups that I have heard of that try to keep the language alive. Naturally, ecclesiastical latin evolves a little as new words are added to it by the Catholic Church. There are other groups that try to keep classical latin alive. A buddy of mine who studied ancient languages had the chance to live for a couple of months in a monastery with a group of monks who exclusively speak latin (I can’t remember where it was now)
I never learned Latin grammar, but younger version of myself actively “spoke” Latin in choir (non-religious). When I learned lyrics, it got me thinking about it and to try to translate it.
Later it was useful in my anatomy lessons and when I wanted to understand some texts on buildings or paintings. It also helped me not to be afraid of Roman languages.
(To my Latin level - still beginner )
I sang in a catholic church choir for 3 years (being an atheist, but my fellow choir members didn’t know that). Because it was a choir in Germany most of our songs were in German but we sang also quite some songs in Latin, which really enjoyed. I found it a bit “exotic” to sing in Latin! I had Latin lessons in school and at university, but you can find the translations of the important catholic church songs all on the internet.
Wow, fascinating to see what’s actually going on in the world of Latin! That’s a language that’s been on my radar for quite some time, I knew it still was in use in some form outside of classrooms but haven’t really looked into it. Thanks for the links
Hi!
In Italy Latin is teached for 5 years at high school (just in Liceo, aka the equivalent of German Gymnasium). We learn grammar and then translate texts from Latin into Italian. No coversation, no translations from Italian.
I find it relatively useful: even if I forgot it, it had helped me learning various Romance languages and also English
I haven’t studied Latin pronunciation outside of music, where “Italian pronunciation” (modern Italian pronunciation, or nearest to) and “Ecclesiastical pronunciation” have always been presented to me as two separate dictions. (I’ve read some heated debates on which diction of Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater should be used.)
Thanks for the reply!
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